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Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 42: Dr. Jason Wersland

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Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior With Mike Sarraille is a podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with disrupters and high performers from all walks of life. In episode 42, we spoke to Dr. Jason Wersland, founder and chief wellness officer of Therabody.

Listen to the full episode above (scroll down for the transcript) and see more from this series below.

This interview has not been edited for length or clarity.


Mike Sarraille:
And welcome back to the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior, podcast. I’ve got Jason Wersland here, of Therabody, which used to be Theragun. When did you guys do the name change?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um, the end of 18, beginning of 19.

Mike Sarraille:
End of 18. Cuz you were branching into other products. Yeah. Or it would’ve, would’ve siloed you guys then.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Exactly. We realized like, this is way bigger than Thera again. Yeah. And that was, that’s really what drove it. We didn’t know that there was gonna be these acquisitions within months of it happening. It was really kind of crazy.

Mike Sarraille:
Which, and I was gonna say congratulations on that because, you know, I used to use the, the pad. What, which I think you guys acquired Power dot. Yeah. Uh, before you guys, uh, got that in the, those things are awesome on the road. Yeah. Especially from my back pain sitting on, uh, flights. But we’ll get to all that. Um, so you got an interesting story, man. Um, yeah. Everyone probably thinks their body was an overnight success. Much like everything they think on, on Instagram and social media is these people just had it made. They didn’t have to work hard. But, um, give the audience, uh, just sort of your background, uh, family, where you started and what you, uh, were doing, which eventually led to Thera again, <laugh> and, uh, now Theba.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Well, I grew up in Utah. We talked about this earlier. Yeah. I’m the oldest of seven. Yeah. And I, our family had a farm, so I spent summers and spring and things like that out on the farm. And you couldn’t learn to be resourceful in those situations. Not realizing at the time, but it was like, it was like a video game. Like, I just grabbed a tool. A couple of things I’m gonna need later in life. I was never really injured as an athlete. I played rugby and soccer and American football and like, I, I had a lot of fun. I excelled a lot. I thought I was pretty good at a lot of things. I never had an injury where it was like season ending. Uh, we were talking, talking about this earlier, about failing fast. I, I had a situation where I had a guy embezzled a bunch of money from me and I had to file bankruptcy.

Mike Sarraille:
So, wait, so embezzled from Thera, again, from early

Dr. Jason Wersland:
On, from another company that I had. So I had a company in 20, sorry man, this is gonna age me. 19 98, 99, 2000. It was a flooring company. My dad was in the flooring business. So I grew up in the flooring business. I installed floor. Like I look at floors all the time and like, think about how I could make a better,

Mike Sarraille:
We we’re cheap as hell here. So No,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You, it’s perfect like a caulking looks great and everything <laugh>. Um, but I was in that space, had a, I had my own, um, business. I had, I was doing custom floors on a lot of houses up in Heber and Deer Valley. Yeah. Uh, deer Crest was a development that I helped with back in the day. Found out this guy was embezzling a bunch of money for me. And I had, I looked at it as an opportunity to start over. Like, okay, now what am I gonna do with my life? I didn’t want to be in the flooring business. Is anyone that I saw on that, that was 40 years older than me was not happy. So I’m like, you know what? I’ve always wanted to be a chiropractor. I’m gonna go to chiropractic school. The, the, our neighbor growing up was the chiropractor for the Utah Jazz.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um, such a Craig Bueller, such a great dude. Um, but I would, I grew up watching him work on Carl Malone and John Stockton. They’d literally come to his house, his <laugh>, he had like a home office and the door would face our house. So I could always see if people were coming and outta there. I, and it was, you know, 15 feet from our border, like our boundary border. So it wasn’t that far. Yeah. Yep. I’m like, Hey. And he’s like, come on in. So I would watch him do what he would do with his hands. And I’m like, I want to do that. Like, I want to know the things he knows. Hey Craig, can you get me in? He wrote me a letter of recommendation to Los Angeles, which is Cleveland Chiropractic in Los Angeles, strangely enough. Um, and I started school. So I, I went, I was still 29.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I was 29, still 29. I was 29. Started chiropractic school thinking it was gonna take me three years. Seven years later, I’m not done yet cuz I didn’t pass national boards a couple of times I was working at my dad’s flooring store trying to make it happen. Yeah. Yep. And I realized I can’t serve two masters. Like I have to. If I’m gonna do this, I gotta do this. So I just, you know, went and worked for a guy for free in Hollywood and met a lot of, that’s when I met some of the people we mentioned earlier. So I had a chance to really kind of get into that space and create a value. So now suddenly he is like, Hey, you can’t leave. I’m like, well, I kind of have to leave if I’m not gonna get paid. In 2006, January of 2006, I realize there’s a law California you can have, you can practice under another chiropractor’s license if you’re an associate.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Meaning like, I don’t have my license yet cuz I’m in school. The buddy of mine has played hockey. He’s a pro hockey player. We are the, at Gold’s Gym in Venice. And he was helping me lift what, like to do biceps or something. And I’m thinking, what does this guy know more than me? He said, I’m a chiropractor. Oh my God. No way. He said, yeah, you know what? You should come work for me. So in 2006, I started my practice, I started building my clients all through six, all through 2007 in October 17th, just a week ago was my motorcycle accident. So I’m flying down the freeway on the 10 freeway splitting traffic like you can in California do. Doing what? Uh, about 50 miles an hour. Okay. Yeah. Not crazy. Not two nuts. Um, the traffic had just come to a stop and I re a guy realized he was getting on the 10 instead of the one 10.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
And just veered right in front of me, smacked the side of this car over the hood, over the hood, laying there, broke my helmet. It was a pretty good impact. I ended up having soft tissue damage in my neck and on my shoulder. And all of the products that I had at my practice were for more chronic issues. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Like, I don’t really have anything in there that I could be like, oh my God, that’s gonna be great. Even the power dot, like we were talking about earlier, like e stem would only do a certain amount, you know, so I’m, I’m kind of looking around and I’m like, what the hell would people do if they’re in this situation? Surgery or drugs or both? And I’m like, I’m still young, I don’t want to do any of that. We had a vibrating table in our clinic that you would do traction on it and the vibration, you, they teach you that the vibration relaxes the tissue so you can actually get some real strong traction.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that’s why good places have a vibrating table. Excuse me. So I would sit on that table and it would take the pain away, meaning I could tolerate it for a minute. It wasn’t so painful cuz I had a nine millimeter dis bowl at C five [inaudible] six. Like it was, could not be ignored. So I would sit on that table. But what happened is, and this is the part of what is so fascinating to me, because it was what created this product is I started learning about vibration to the body. So pain travels to the brain at about 55 miles an hour, roughly. When you put a stimulus on your bodies, cold, wind, heat pressure, pin points, those that information travels to the brain at 268 miles an hour. But the body accommodates to that information really quickly. Like your hat or your watch or whatever.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You’re not thinking about it until I say that. Well that if and if it’s the wrong stimulus. I’ve tried to think about how to say this, but if it’s the wrong stimulus, it’s not enough stimulus. Your body gets used to it takes it, puts it in the subconscious and you guys know what that’s like and what you used to do. Yeah. Yep. And, and stays focused on what’s most important. But what was most important at that time was my pain. And so this table worked for like 20 seconds and then the pain would come back and I’d be like, God, that’s crazy. So I’m talking to my brother, I have a bunch of brothers, one of them is a chiropractor. He was in a water skiing accent about two years before me. I have two kids live in Utah with their mom. And we, I would fly back and forth while I was going to school every other weekend to be with my kids.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
We would stay at his house cause our kids were the same age little background. I’d watch him out on his front porch with his like, noose thing around his beam and his deck. And he’s like, vibrating this thing and like pulling on his neck and like, what is he doing? Well I, I called him after I was like, bro, what was, what were you doing? And he said that vibration was like the table and the traction was just me doing tractions on my neck. And I was like, oh my God, I want to be able to do that at my house. Like, I can’t sit here at the office and do this. How did you do that? And he’s like, well I got this thing called the Viber Custer. It’s about the size of these cans has a dial on the bottom. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> of speed.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
And he said, just go get like, I, so do you have one of those? I said, no, I don’t even know what that is. My business partner had one and it was like a movie, literally. He’s like, yeah, I think I have one. It’s in the closet in there. You can have it <laugh>. So I go dig this out and I show my brother and he’s like, yeah, that’s it. So basically what it did is I would turn it on and I would hold it underneath my armpit like this. And I would think that the vibration was gonna make the pain stop. Cause I was locally right on it. It wasn’t this general area. My body did the same thing. It was like, it would accommodate so quickly, especially the more I would hold onto it. The brain was just like, it’s not gonna work. So I was literally sitting there one day and I’m like, there’s has to be a better way.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Like if vibrations constantly on the body than the body can accommodate. If I have something that’s doing this, what if, what does that look like? You know? And, and because I had all these background and tools, I was like, should I make that outta the jigsaw? So I literally go to my garage. I had, I started with a saw all first like <laugh>, you know? Right. But then I grabbed a jigsaw and I started, I, I bent the blade, wrapped a dish towel around the blade. And then I wrapped electrical tape around that just to make sure I wasn’t gonna cut myself. Cause I wanted to see like, what is this gonna do? So I started, you know, doing the thing. And I, as I was doing it, I realized I was focusing on what I was doing and the pain wasn’t, number one. I’m like, that’s weird. So I set it down for a second, wait for the pain to come back, cuz it always did. And then I’d start doing it again. And I’d look at my watch. I’m like, holy shit. Like 3, 4, 5 minutes. I’m like, I can breathe. And like, I’m not in this sort of tense, painful situation. Like, at least what I’m feeling. So I thought, my God, this is great. Perfect. I’ll use this. Hopefully I’m not taking too long of this conversation. No, this

Mike Sarraille:
Is, this is the point. Maybe <laugh>, basically it’s mother’s or necessity is the mother of all

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Inventions. I I, that’s what I say that all the time. Yeah. I, I wasn’t looking to make the next coolest thing. You were just, you’re looking to alleviate want better. You know. So I basically, January 1st, 2008 was when I started using this new tool that I made this jigsaw. By July 4th, 2008, I’d got myself better to the point where I was lifting weights again. I’d got some of my mask back. And now I’m going back to my practice and I’m starting to work on patients. Never in a thousand years thinking that I’m gonna bring that to the office. And quite frankly, I tell people this, but I thought it was so obvious that someone had to have thought of this. Yeah. Right. So I’m like, some this is out there somewhere. I’ll run into it. I gotta focus on being a chiropractor. Well, a couple months later, October, November of 2008, my secretary walks in and hands me some paperwork of this patient.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
And I’m doing what you do. I’m his age mechanism of injuries, his diagnostic studies sort of going through these things. And I’m realizing like, I’m putting this story together and it’s me again. So I’m like, holy crap, this guy see his insurance, he’s a bus driver. I’m like, there’s no way this guy’s gonna get better with what I have in my office. Wonder if that thing will work on him. So I bring him in, take X-rays. I said, Hey, when you come back tomorrow to review your x-rays, bring your wife with you, I have something I think would work or help. So he comes back the next day and I literally snuck this thing into my room, pull out this Nikita jigsaw. And I was like,

Mike Sarraille:
Electrical tape. And, and

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Okay. The whole thing. And I’m like, okay, listen, I went through what you’re going through and this is what, this is what I think was one of the most profound experiences that drove me through the next 10 years. I said, I know I used this to get better. I’m gonna show you how to do the same thing. I want to empower you to believe you can feel better when I’m not around. And this is what, what’s gonna do that? So let me show you how to use this. I would use it on him in the clinic. He’d take it home, see him next day. So now I’m

Mike Sarraille:
Not even to mention the liability. You probably accepted if

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I, I was like, look

Mike Sarraille:
Dude, like don’t hurt yourself. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Don’t sue me. You have knives at your house. I’m sure you don’t cut yourself every day. Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
Right.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So I watched this guy get better. I, I went, now it’s Christmas of 2008. I went home to be with my kids. I came back the beginning of January, walked in my office and my, my secretary says, your patients back in the room. And as I’m walking back the room, I hear the gun on. And, and I, I walked in and he was sitting there just like nothing was wrong, running around his body. And he was like, doc, you have to figure this out. Like this saved my life. And I remember that I talk about this and I’ve told this story a thousand times, but it was like the universe punched me in the chest. It was like a matrix thing. And I was like, holy shit, he’s right. Like I have to figure this out. And I walked because I saw what it did to him. I saw how impactful it was for me. There was nothing like that in this space. So I thought, you know what, I’m gonna figure that out. So the next eight years, that’s what I did. I tried to figure out the science, the technology, like frequency, amplitude, and torque were the three things that made this work the way they did. And the specific specs around each one of those.

Mike Sarraille:
And so were you self-learning this or were you finding experts to assist you with

Dr. Jason Wersland:
The sort of I was ev anywhere I could go. Yeah. I’m telling you dude, like, it, it was, I really felt like I have something, but I don’t know what it is. And I’ll get it into the hands of the people that do and will and I’ll, and we’ll figure it out. And along the way, I kind of taught myself a lot of the science and the use cases and you know, we have Thera Body University now. It has Yes. All these courses that I created back in the day just, but it wasn’t for me. It was from my experiences like, oh my god, that works like that every time. Let me try and put that in a study, doing a study. Oh my hell. So now suddenly we have some new really cool information. So anyway, we launched, I, I took the next eight years. I met my business partner the December of 2015. Um, we launched the company in June, March of 2016. We launched G one in June of 16. We launched G2 in July of 17.

Mike Sarraille:
So stepping back, so you guys had a prototype as you’re putting the business together. So the are are you filing patents at this point? Yes. Or or you are. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You are. Yeah. There’s patents at the point, because I started understanding some of the science behind who

Mike Sarraille:
I had. Yes. Yep.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
The, the, the, the, um, form factor was stumping. We were developing. We weren’t really sure what that would look like yet. And looking back now, it’s easy to say that, but at the time we were just stumbling around, like trying to figure it out.

Mike Sarraille:
And so I’ve gotta ask, in terms of foreign factors, did you guys grab the power tool and you’re like, this is

Dr. Jason Wersland:
That For me, that was, I didn’t have the budget. So the next, I made five different versions over that eight years. And each one of those versions was a version of a power tool. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I was trying to get the manufacturers to change the specs on them, like the amplitude and the torque and stuff. But they were like,

Mike Sarraille:
Were you?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah, right. Exactly. <laugh>. So in 2009, uh, I, this is just an interesting story. I’ll tell you really fast. 2009, I bought 250 jigsaws from Kawasaki <laugh> borrowed money from my brother, successful chiropractor, borrowed money from him, buy these guns and I start taking ’em apart, putting ’em back together. I have some people helping me in LA and I’m selling them as fast as I can make them. And they’re costing me 25 bucks. I’m selling ’em for 300. I’m like, this might be a pretty good model here. Let’s see how this goes. We, that was, I sold out those two 50 as fast as I could make them. And it was really, that’s like where I thought, okay, wow. If you, if you were a guy that bought one back then I would ask you, tell me what it takes for this to be a perfect tool that you would use in your clinic.

Mike Sarraille:
So you’re getting customer feedback. Oh my God, you’d use iterate quickly. And the next model would

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Not be where we are. If that wasn’t that. Yeah. The, if I didn’t have that mentality back then, we wouldn’t be where

Mike Sarraille:
We are now. Now the people that were, were buying these, I mean are, are we talking athletes? Are we talking, because I know in LA got celebrities

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Black men, it was just chiropractors and physical therapists. Because I thought of the

Mike Sarraille:
Time in their offices.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I thought that’s how it’s gotta be in presented to the world. I didn’t think about the athlete perspective of it until later was actually sort of an eye-opening experience with Bobby Wagner. I was like, anyway, it was, it was wasn’t till later that I started realizing like, there are other use cases for this. Not just in the chiropractor’s office. So now it’s 2017. So,

Mike Sarraille:
Sorry. So you thought possibly not necessarily a commercial use outside of offices or that that’s where you started. You’ll just get it to let chiropractors use it, not your everyday Yes.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Dude. Like, like why would a Yeah. Like you don’t know what to do. That, that’s where my mentality was.

Mike Sarraille:
Like that’s, well I, that’s logic. I think that’s natural logic.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So in 2012, 2011, I had made what I thought was close enough version that I could let someone else take it and use it. And these, I worked an unbreakable performance on Hollywood in, in, and there was a bunch of guys there, Chuck, a bunch of people used to go there. So I was exposed to these like broad group of, back then we wouldn’t call ’em influencers, but that’s what they ended up being. So suddenly now I’m in the front of all these guys and they’re taking my tool from my room. I had a clinic room and it was downstairs underneath the gym, underneath the boxing ring actually. And they would take my stuff and bring it up on the floor and I would like, what are you doing? Like, no. And they, and they’re, and they’re like telling me I know what I’m doing.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So I’m watching, you know, could drop a bunch of names, but there was a bunch of athletes there and I’m watching them use it and I’m thinking, holy shit. They’re using it right before they do a box jump. They’re using it between their sets as they’re doing pre bench presses. And I’m like, what is going on? That’s the first time I like was thought, oh my gosh, if these guys, and this is before Instagram was really a thing, foam rolling was just barely starting to get kicked off. And these guys started posting cuz it was a cool thing to post, look at my muscles, like Ripple. And so I’m watching this kind of happen. We grew up basically with Instagram. I mean that was, if you look back in the day, that was how I got this out there. And waking up one morning and seeing Kevin Hart posting of this therapist that I knew in Birmingham, that was in London, that was just outside of London that was treating his butt and he’s being really super funny about it. That wouldn’t fly anywhere unless it was on social media. So I see those types of things. That’s how we kind of grew up. People started seeing them, these different use

Mike Sarraille:
Cases and you’re not having, so you didn’t have to pay Kevin Hart. Like these guys are just you, so you’re getting free advertisement. Yeah. Which is the best form of Advertis The

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Kardashians posted countless times

Mike Sarraille:
Without ever talking

Dr. Jason Wersland:
To, without ever say anything. Ronaldo, same thing.

Mike Sarraille:
You see the beauty of that. I mean, cuz other companies would have to seek them out and pay them big time dollars. Yep. Yep. That’s awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
It and it’s, it’s all about relationships. Yeah. You know, and honoring those relationships and you know, as a, as a chiropractor, I consider myself lucky, but I also have to make sure that I protect, I can’t kiss and tell, you know? Yeah. So that’s not part of what I do. And that I’ve also realized that’s part of what’s allowed me to do what I’m doing, is having that respect and honor where I’m not gonna

Mike Sarraille:
Name drop. Yeah. It’s client

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Patient privilege. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
I’ll name drop. I’m not under, uh, any contract. I, I’m looking. No, no. Okay. So, um, that, so one that’s a great, I forget, that’s a great story. Coffee is by the way, it’s good. Yeah. Black raffle coffee. Yeah. Yeah. They’re uh, they are a strong sponsor for, uh, for the triple seven that we discussed we have coming up. Mm-hmm. And I can’t thank, uh, Evan Haer, uh, Andy Stump, Mike Glover, uh, Logan, uh, stark and Jerich Oden and all. That’s man, uh, that, that is a great company in terms of marketing. Those guys are a Harvard, uh, business case example. Hilarious guys have your net. That’s another one is have you ever heard of frog fuel?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um, probably, but

Mike Sarraille:
It’s not. So Frog fuel is in, I’m gonna, Michelle, you’ll have to go look this up. It’s like a hydro something form of protein that you digest in 15 se or 15 minutes rather than your whey protein that takes Oh, wow. 60 to to 90 minutes. Frog of fuel. Frog fuel. Started by a seal. Alex Koons. That’s why. Yeah. So it’s got the, the big frog with the tri. We, we’ve gotta throw a frog or a tri on everything. It’s, it gets anointed, dude. Um, but no, the, the, the shit is good and it’s in a little pouch, like right after a workout or in the gym, 15 grams per pouch.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Is it a powder or a liquid? Liquid.

Mike Sarraille:
Liquid. And they’ve got one with, uh, with caffeine about 80 milligrams of caffeine. And then, uh, which is, so I take the frog fuel and the black, uh, black raffle coffee in the morning. But so before I, you know, by the time I’m done with my workout, I’m already 45 grams of protein into, uh, to,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Uh, you have the, all the side effects of it. No, in inhaling that many.

Mike Sarraille:
You, we had, uh, Gabrielle line, she’s Dr. Gabrielle line. She’s a, a muscle based dietician. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she came in, I think it was about two weeks ago she was on She’s great. And she’s also married to a seal. We’re very incestuous <laugh>. Um, but I love it. She said this, and this doesn’t strike me, you know, she said the average man from that way, anywhere from one 50 to 200 only gets 100 grams of protein per day. Cuz they’re not monitoring their macros and weather intake. Oh wow. She’s like, that’s, and it’s so critical on health that one, they’re not maintaining muscle mass.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
That just hit me. Think of the side effects of that just crippling over

Mike Sarraille:
Time. Oh yeah. As you lose muscle mass. Yeah. Uh, interesting stuff. But, um, so, but you did have a number of investors. You you had built, uh, relationships. I knew, so

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. So my business partner ended up being my seed investor. He was my first guy that came in

Mike Sarraille:
Traditional business background. I was successful. We just, he

Dr. Jason Wersland:
His, yeah. Very successful. His family was from Qualcomm and so he had everything that I needed for this to be successful. And I filled one role, you know, and, and having someone like Kim that has the business acumen and the relationships in that world and stuff. So we actually, ra his money brought us through to, we just closed the series A.

Mike Sarraille:
You’re you’re kidding me. No. So, so you guys just didn’t need the money up until this point.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
We were profitable like until like a year ago

Mike Sarraille:
To, to include the acquisitions you made. Yeah. Which is why you’re probably not profitable, cuz Yeah,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. Yeah. There’s a little bit of setback.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. But, but, but for the growth,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So our, our, we ha we did a celebrity round, um, for obvious reasons. Yeah. Uh, in like 20 19, 20 18. Hopefully those dates are about right. Uh, but it was more about Timberlake and, and two chains and like all these different people.

Mike Sarraille:
You, you got Justin Timberlake. Yeah. Shut the front door. No. All right. He’s, he’s a, he’s a office favorite in your eyebrow.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So, so I gotta tell you, he, he, he had a golf tournament and I went to his in Vegas a few months back and I hadn’t seen him since it happened. I used to, I would treat him. So anyway, I, we were at this golf tournament and I had a chance to go up to him and I was like, jt, like I want to tell you how much that meant to me. He was our first investor. Like he was the first person that said, I want to put money in. We’re like, we’re not even set up for that yet. And he ended up bringing some cash. And so I told him, I’m like, dude, do you know how much that means to me? And he was like, yeah, I know. It’s so funny. He’s like, I know, I knew it was gonna be a good one. I tell everybody all the time. So I’m like, okay, so it’s not a secret. He’s like, no, it’s not a secret. I want everyone to know. So yeah, it was, those kinds of opportunities came along. And I think it’s back to what I said a minute ago, it’s just relationships and respecting those relationships. And I’m not, I do what I do cuz I want the effects for you. It’s not Yeah. Cuz I want you to post, you know,

Mike Sarraille:
Well, first off, I don’t, I can’t call him jt, so I gotta use his full name voice of an angel. But no, no. I mean, that’s not dumb money with celebrities. I mean that is, so while they may not be engrossed in the business, they’re bringing marketing, which is eyeballs, which is conversion hopefully to Yeah. To, to, to patients. But le le let’s talk about this cuz if I go back to my, my days in Marine recon and, and the seals, uh, yeah. Did we stretch a little bit before we ran? But it was also like, have you ever seen the movie Replacements the Kicker? Yeah. <laugh>, you know, like, hey, you guys got a 20 uh, mile rock run, you know, you throw a cigarette, uh, throw the cigarette and, and just do a little stretch and then you would throw the rock sack on and run. And it seemed like, even, even when I looked back at like, weightlifting back the end of day, I said, I lifted every day with no appreciation for recovery. And everyone, everyone’s like, dude, when you get older, it’s, it’s gonna be different. That’s, it’s probably

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Seven days too.

Mike Sarraille:
Right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, two days on deployment, even when we had missions and I’m, and people were like, Hey, you’re not gonna recover the same when you turn 30, when you turn 40, when you turn 15. My answer was like, shut, piss off.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Like,

Mike Sarraille:
I’m, I’m a I’m a stud. So, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen and read some stuff where you’re like, I wish people, in fact, I think I have a quote and let me read this cuz it, it just, the beauty of this quote.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
Uh, we do our research. We just don’t fly by the seat of our, our pants. We <laugh>. We’re not Rogan. I’m, I’m just joking. Um, Rogan is,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
He can be him actually. He’s

Mike Sarraille:
Good. And Andy and I just went on there. He’s he’s good man. He can cover a conversation. So here, here’s the quote. There’s a lack of knowledge and attention around recovery for the mind and the body. In my opinion, the solution is that we need to start teaching all humans how to take better care of their bodies. For the sport world in particular, I think each team needs to spend just as much time and money on prevention in recovery as they do on performance. We need more facilities where athletes can go to receive high quality, effective, full body in mind recovery. The seal teams, which, you know, they used to like to say were, were athlete warriors, was the same way. They never had a per a focus on longevity. The focus was on performance now. And I love how you talk not, not only about the body, but the mind. Yeah. And I noticed you guys are starting to throw some, uh, some products out there. Not throw methodically, put some products out there. Uh, the latest I’ve seen, and I don’t wanna butcher it, is now a sleep. Yeah. Sleep aid. Yeah. Yeah. What, when did you move from just physical body pain to now? Sort of like this, this, this mind category, or I guess you could say this, this emotional Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Fitness. Yeah, that’s, I think this is part of what’s interesting about this is like, it’s so new to us that we don’t really even know what to call it. You know what I mean? Like that mind soul connection comes through our body. We have this physical experience that we’re having. But if I disconnect you from your mind, then now you’re just a robot. And we’re not robots. Like sometimes we’d like to be, but we’re not. So if I’m working on your body physically, and I have the most state-of-the-art badass shit we can provide mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you’re not right in your head, it doesn’t matter what I do to your body, you’re not gonna be able to perform in the settings you used to grow up in, in the settings of just typical life coping mechanisms, understanding those things. So it, it, it, I started seeing as good as I felt like I was on particular athletes.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
If they weren’t right in their head, it didn’t matter what I was doing. So I’d have to stop, stop touching them, let them go in inside their mind, sort of focus on, okay, I gotta settle the demons in my mind before I can actually go out and do what I have to do. So for me, what’s really fun about it is it, I wasn’t looking for the next thing. I just started paying attention to the performance. What’s happening. Yeah. Yeah. And it was the same sort of model that developed the, again, over time as I was watching around me and being like, okay, this isn’t about me. This is about science. And if I can have science attached to all of this, then long after I’m gone, this will still be something that people are using. So that’s kind of the focus we had. And you have to include the mind, you have to include the quiet moments, the, the place you go when you’re getting ready for something. Whether it’s a presentation, a new baby, uh, you know, like whatever those situations are where you’re just like, oh my god, in your head. So like for me, that’s where we have to come in and say, okay, how can we, what science do we have that can back that up? So you mentioned the goggles. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the goggles have something in it, and we’re sneaking into this a little bit, right? So it’s not like we can jump in with head first. We’re like, let’s see us test goes

Mike Sarraille:
Test a little, learn a lot to

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Watch how this works. And what we’ve done is we’ve been able to see technology kind of keep up with us a little bit ahead of us. So I give you an example of a guy call me and say, um, you could put a chip in your paragon. This is in like 2016. I’m like, what? Why

Mike Sarraille:
<laugh>? To to listen in on your consumers.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. And I’m like, why would we do that? Well now it’s in there. Like it’s if you don’t have Bluetooth, if you’re not connected in this

Mike Sarraille:
World. So it’s collecting data as

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. Pressure time, how long you’re using it, how often are you using it? It’s not all information we have yet. Yeah. We just announced a, a relationship with Aura, an official relationship with them to get that biometric data Aura ring. Mm-hmm.

Mike Sarraille:
<affirmative> is that you’re looking? Yes. Okay.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So, um, the goggles get back to that. The goggles have a little PPG reader, like, like a whoop in it mm-hmm. <affirmative> that sits on your cheek. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when you put the goggles on, there’s three preset settings. This is kind of this philosophy. We go by R smart, relax, focus and sleep. The difference is the reason we call it smart relax. And this is the mind like anxiety. If I don’t, if if, if you’re standing in some of the situations you’ve been in in your life mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I looked at you from the outside mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would think absolute warrior, but somewhere in your mind <laugh> somewhere

Mike Sarraille:
That Michelle

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
That’s your boss. We don’t, we don’t use word boss. It’s your your teammate <laugh>. Sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
But if, but inside you may be going crazy. Right? So how I, I have, we have to start thinking about addressing both of those things.

Mike Sarraille:
Dude, I need, I need to hook you up with the, the US socom, uh, special operations command. I’m sure you already are, but this, this is a

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Quite frankly Yeah. It’s been, it’s a really hard nut to crack mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I didn’t come from that world. So I

Mike Sarraille:
Don’t know a lot of, and they’re always, any, any world is always resistant or a little hesitant. Yeah. On outsiders.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Hey dude, I’m I side note, everything we have was made for warriors.

Mike Sarraille:
Everything. Different warriors and their respective professions.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I love that. Yes. And, and if, if you’re, if you don’t have these things, then you’re missing out on something at whatever level you’re a warrior. And to me, what you guys do, like those people, they should have this. So my goal is to put it in a pack that’s light enough that it, they can justify taking it with them. So there’s a lot of that that’s sort of behind the brand cuz I’m realizing those are the people that really need this stuff. Not me trying to run faster. But that PPG reader reads your heart rate. The reason it reads your heart rate is cuz I heart, your heart rate doesn’t lie. So if I can get your heart rate lower, your parasympathetic nervous system drops in, starts kicking in. So it’s us being able, the reason we call it smart relax is it actually reads your pulse and it vibrates back to you what your heart rate is and what the heart does.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
What our environment around us is, it tries to match the environment. So getting hyped up. Yes. Screaming, yelling, listen to music. That’s to get your heart rate up. It’s artificially to get, um, uh, oh my gosh. What sort of a stimulus to to, yeah. Yeah. Um, fight or flight. Yes. It’s just to turn that on. Right. To turn the fight on. Yeah. Yep. But if, if I came in and started singing lullabies jokingly mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but like to a bunch of people that are gonna out and play a game, like that’s not gonna get their heart rate. But we have to be able to do that for you to get the other side of your performance. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we’ve gotta drop you into parasympathetic. The heart rate. The heart doesn’t lie, but the heart ironically is the connection between your body and your mind. So we have to start focusing on what the heart is doing, what it’s saying.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
And I think a lot of us don’t go into our heart physically then when, think about it cuz it’s, it’s our heart. Like it seems like this holy grail that no one wants to talk about. So for us, I feel like there’s a really big opportunity for us to start monitoring biometrics, heart rate, heart rate variability, and now start implying these opportunities in your life for you to have a parasympathetic moment. Cuz the more times you do that, you can perform so much better. Whether it’s sitting here like I did out here, I sat there for 30 seconds in my car and was just like, I’m here today. This is what I’m doing right now. And I wanted to be, I want to perform, I want to focus, I want this to be great. Like to take the time to do that. I think everyone needs that, but we just don’t have the excuse. So the mind that one of the products we launched is what I call pit stops. So you have pit stops. We, formula One was just yesterday. Right. Watch these guys do pit stops. <laugh>.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I had an opportunity to go to Red Bull cause we do, we sponsor Red Bull. Yeah. So I went to their head headquarters in Milton King’s just outside of London and they showed me what they called their NASA room. And I’m like, I, they said you gotta see our NASA room. And I thought, I don’t know about it was the most amazing think tank amphitheater. Amphitheater with screens about 50 screens. And then there were desks that corresponded with each screen and they basically said all of the information, whatever their, whatever track they’re at, all of the data comes back to that room. The track conditions, the weather, the tire temperature, this, I’m telling you this, the stuff they were telling me. And then they said, this helps us have the fastest pit stops in like on record. So to me I’m like, well NASA broom is our brain <laugh> and we’re constantly gathering information and how can I feed something back to someone and get them ready for what’s coming?

Mike Sarraille:
So in your real time while while F1 in Austin is going on, they’re sending information to the pit crew like, Hey, you need to tell your driver to pit now.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yes. It literally

Mike Sarraille:
Gotcha.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
It’s going back and forth

Mike Sarraille:
And that is totally legal.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
It totally legal. That’s how they’re able to do what they do. There’s so much in Formula one that relates to the brain. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> my mind. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So when, when I was developing Thera mind with our team mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was these, how can I get a type A personality to meditate 10 times a week? Because meditation, when I just say that is a 20 minute sit down, you know, I

Mike Sarraille:
Get shit to

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Do man. Yeah. I got shit to do. That’s, yeah. So I wanted to give you 30 seconds of a stimulus that would prepare you for what’s coming. That’s our minimum. We have 30 seconds, 2, 3, 4, 7 minutes. But now imagine you’re sitting outside in your car, you’ve had a crazy day, whatever that means to you, and you now have to go in and be a dad, or you now have to go in and be a husband. How can you switch that nervous system, our little lever inside to get us ready for that role? So in my mind, wave a magic wand one day Thera mind has access to your Google calendar. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> your calendar. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it plugs in,

Mike Sarraille:
Who’s your heart rate? 64.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yep. Everything you’re doing, here’s your heart rate. Here’s what, what’s your focus? You create these goals. I want to be a, a present father. Then just 10 minutes before you’re gonna be a dad. Cuz we all know when that is, we’re at work, whatever. Now you suddenly have something you can tap into that literally turns on your par. Is there your nervous system in a way that helps you perform and be present at that moment. Just like a pit

Mike Sarraille:
Stop. So, you know, you look at the days old and when I say the days of old, that’s the nineties, you know, two thousands, uh, for us. And it, you know, so, and God, I hate to bring the, the be the, the guy who, uh, brings up the seal aspect of it. But I, I’m going to, you know, I’m, I’m gonna end up like that dude outside of a, a army surplus store, <laugh> just commenting on everything. And then somebody, uh, buys me like, oh, okay. Marvin killed a guy. Okay, Mar no, but there was a lot we did not know. And we were all about performance. I mean, every great culture is about performance at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, they always said, Hey, the, the body is so resilient and, and you look at hell week, they’re like, we’re not concerned about your body.

Mike Sarraille:
The body will keep on going, but your mind will break long before Yeah. Now you fast forward to, to, to combat. And what we weren’t good at is fight or flight. They talked about the para, the parasympathetic and then what’s the other Sympathetic. Sympathetic, yeah. Um, which they always, just for layman terms to tell us, it’s basically fight or flight. Yeah. Is that we would be on deployment and it was fight, fight, fight the entire time. But when we came back home, we couldn’t turn that off. And additionally they saw with the endocrine system, and, and I learned this all from a, a guy named Dr. Chris Free, who coined the term operator syndrome, looking at special operators and all the impacts. And, and he said the, the, the largest impact they Oh wow. They saw was the endocrine system, which it basically shut it down.

Mike Sarraille:
So your testosterone, your cortisol, and after a deployment, you know, you get back, it, it would sort of level out. After a deployment you would recover a little bit, your testosterone will go back up. But it, these guys had, some of these guys had 5, 10, 15 deployments and eventually never, it just wouldn’t reset. Yeah. And all of a sudden my cortisol is higher than my, uh, testosterone. I mean, they didn’t start, uh, if you qualified, they didn’t start issuing testosterone until about 2012, 2013. And even then the, the, the, the, the military couldn’t do it. Well cuz then they weren’t putting people on, uh, anti estrogens. Uhhuh, <affirmative>. And so it, it’s amazing. And two, you talk about the brain. Cuz I had the, the fortunate pleasure of going to something called the National Intrepid Center for Excellence. Mm. And it had just three weeks of holistic, uh, medicine, uh, from traditional western medicine to eastern, uh, medicine.

Mike Sarraille:
But you’re going through CAT scans and MRIs and you know, basically the doctors are like, we know so little about the brain. And to us we’re like, what are you talking about? It’s, it’s 2015 mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’re like, we are just scratching the surface. So this, this mental space, and I mean the everyday warrior, we talk about three pillars. Physical, mental, or emotional, whatever you wanna call it. Especially spiritual in that mental and spiritual piece. We have, we’ve barely scratched the, uh, the surface. But, um, you see these, these athletes, man, and, and they just, they don’t take time to rest and reflect.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
No, it’s, I think it what you said a minute ago, like back in the day, if you could get by with three hours of sleep and crush two workouts, like that was your badge of honor. You know,

Mike Sarraille:
Can you maintain it?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. But, but if you look at things now, the, the performance athletes, LeBron James, CB three, like all these guys that spend millions of dollars a year on taking care of this meat sack, this vessel we’re in. You know, like, and, and if you look at what a lot of them do, a lot of them also have these mindfulness coaches. Um, I’m read, I’m listening to the book for the 40th time call. It takes what it takes, it talks about

Mike Sarraille:
Written by,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um, I always forget his last name.

Mike Sarraille:
It, and don’t worry like so much, uh, so many brain lesions right here, <laugh>. People are like, Hey, even on. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
It

Mike Sarraille:
Takes

Dr. Jason Wersland:
What it

Mike Sarraille:
Takes on, on recall on podcasts. I’m like, ah, some guy’s name who wrote a book,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Trevor Moad. Okay. Uh, he worked at IMG and stuff. But it’s, it’s really about like, um, taking care of, like I say, we, we get one body. Uh, Warren Buffet said this and, and I I, I try to find this cuz the way he said, it’s so much better than I’m gonna say this, but imagine when you’re born, your dad gives you the nicest car you can buy at that time. The trick is, the catch is you only get that one car for the rest of your life. So if you start thinking about it, where are you gonna park it? Who are you gonna let drive it? What, where like what do you do with the tires? You do the oil. Like, you start thinking about what you would do if you had one car for your whole life. Well, we only get one body.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So what are you doing with that? And it’s not my doctor’s job to take care of my sore knee. Like I need to be able to take care of those things. And we went to doctor every time we had an issue, like probably half the problem with what’s going on in with the, with healthcare right now. But it’s, it’s being able to empower people to take care of their bodies, understand their bodies, but then be able to continue doing what they’re doing. And back to what I said a minute ago, like if you’re not thinking about the mind, if the mind isn’t part of what you’re doing in a day, then you’re half, you’re showing up half empty in my opinion. So,

Mike Sarraille:
So your industry is almost, I mean rest in recovery, but it’s almost preemptive. Well

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I was gonna say earlier when you were reading that quote, simplest quote I could say right now is we need to make prevention sexy. Cuz if it’s sexy, people will do it and they’ll start to understand it. But you talk to anyone in your space, anyone that’s in the athletic space, they understand that they’re starting to recognize like, wow, I, if I take the right amount of downtime and do it right, I come back even more charged than I was before. So yeah, I think it’s the whole shift of, you know, how much pain you could take <laugh> Yeah. To actually looking at it and be like, okay, I can take a lot of pain but I also need to take it the other way.

Mike Sarraille:
Well the hardest thing to, to tell any high performer, again, re regardless of the industry is hey, do you just need to sit this one out?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Right. Basically you’re like, there’s that, there’s so many messages in that, you know, there’s a way that we could actually get people to understand like a actually this is a badge of honor. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, take some time, breathe, get focused. Cuz when you come back you’re gonna be so much better. And how many times have we been taught this? Like light your candle before you can light other people’s or Yeah, that whole flight attendant thing where they say put your mask on before you help someone out. Like there’s all these analogies, but we

Mike Sarraille:
Don’t do it. Oh, that’s ingrained. I’m saving myself before anyone else <laugh>. That’s just except my kids. Uh, the, so I mean the, the data has to be there. Cuz I do remember at the last command I was at, we used to bring in, uh, you know, who’s the, the pet kettlebell guy, uh, the Russian, it’s uh, um, Pavlov or something like that. Or, or, and we used to bring in like these power lifters, like the strong man gas who legit. Uh, and they, they would basically give us instruction on technique and it was find the people that the very best in their industry and we bring them in to learn from ’em because we were a, a, a jack of all trades, a master of none. So, you know, uh, I remember one group of guys went out and got, um, the guy who trained all the guys for the 300.

Mike Sarraille:
It’ll come to me. He’s a world class mountaineer. Uh, uh, he also had the gym, Jim Jones mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know who I’m talking about? Yes. Uh, because he was great at mountain climbing. They brought him in and he brought him to the mountains. But we brought in a, uh, the, the, the head physical trainer for the Reskins team. He was talking about, um, how most injuries don’t need to go to surgery that you can rehab through them. And he was talking about shoulder injuries mainly is that he would have guys on a protocol every night after prac practice of the off season, where traditionally doctors would be like, yeah, we need to go in and, and do surgery. And they’d be out and he said they would work right through the injury and the injury would just either I, I wouldn’t go away, but the muscles would become so strong that

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Age. Yeah. Then there’s so many things now that you can do that with that It’s wasn’t like the old days where you had a band and that was all you had. Yeah. I mean you put blood flow restriction, there’s like all these different things you can do that strengthen muscle. So yeah. The therapy part of that is huge.

Mike Sarraille:
Is there any data that shows for every hour of working out, if you give one hour of rest and recovery using the tools that you’ve developed,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Then roughly one to one.

Mike Sarraille:
One to one. Yeah. And it will prevent,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You’ll, if you’re taking care of your body the same amount of time that you’re beating it up, then your longevity is for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
So you guys have branched out. I mean the, the gun was just beautiful and it seems like there’s been a lot of knockoffs Yeah. With the patents didn’t prevent that or the patents only prevented that from a or for

Dr. Jason Wersland:
A short period of time. Well you, you, you have to protect your patents. Yeah. People don’t care that you have a patent.

Mike Sarraille:
And so, oh, so has this been illegal?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. We have in-house legal team. That’s all they do. It’s a hundred percent.

Mike Sarraille:
If not, you’d be paying lawyers through Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
And we would miss half the stuff and it would water down our brand. And like, there’s a lot of reasons why we have someone that’s vigilantly looking for that. Because our ip, I have two, we have almost 300 patents.

Mike Sarraille:
That’s

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Insane. So if our, if

Mike Sarraille:
We’re not, and your name’s on pretty much all of ’em. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. And if they’re not protecting those patents, then why have them? And we’re creating a business with specific IP like this thera mind this, the frequencies that we’re using in Thera mind. We have a lot of science behind that, but our, our application of doing that is patented processes. So like, yeah, it’s cute. These guys on Amazon or selling a gun for 60 bucks or whatever. Yeah. But like, you’re gonna get that. You know

Mike Sarraille:
What I mean? You pay for what you Yeah. Get what you pay for.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. So I think with us it’s being able to continue to make good products and look for opportunities to, for acquisitions. Like we talked about power dot and recovery

Mike Sarraille:
Air. Do you guys have a Chinese knockoff yet?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Oh my god, so

Mike Sarraille:
Many on, uh, wait, what’s the name of the website? Alibaba. Alibaba, yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Oh yeah. I get ’em all the time. That’s one of the cool things about having as many employees as we have right now is they’re all become our eyes. Yeah. No matter where they are. Yes. So we’re in a lot of different countries. So whether it’s Italy, Australia, Japan, you have people that are like texting into our Slack channel and competition saying, I just saw these guys, I got a a a popup the other day of this new looking gun that I thought was a great idea, but their attachment was my attachment. And I’m like, seriously? So send it to our legal team. They send a cease and desist letter and they’re, they tell me a lot of times that their comments back are, we didn’t know I was patented.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. Ignorance is not anxious. You

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So we’re like, okay, well how many do you have in the market? Well, we take them all off. Need a royalty for that. So,

Mike Sarraille:
Ah, is that what usually the deal is? Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Becomes a big thing. And right now there’s a lot of opportunity for us to license some of our technology, which is like a total added bonus. I didn’t, I never thought that it would be that way. But our motor that’s in the gen five, like that thing will become, in my opinion, power tool. A power tool model of how to create a better motor.

Mike Sarraille:
The uh, has your loyal fan base become like Apple users that every time they much Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s, they, they gen

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Up, we talk about Yeah, it’s a hundred percent. People say that to me all the time. It’s too much money. I’m like, what phone do you have? How much Do you spend on that every year you pay for a different phone?

Mike Sarraille:
Well, so I went into cpi, cellular Cellular Performance Institute, Tiwan, it’s run by Scott Nelson and Ed Clay. Two MMA guys. Mm. And it’s stem cell. Um, and a lot of, you know, a lot of the athletes have gone down there and you, you talked about losing mass and man, you want to talk about getting into my head, I’ve, I’ve lost a lot of, uh, muscle mass. Yeah. And I’m just coming off the recovery of the stem. And plus I had a, a hip replacement in December, 2020 in just

Dr. Jason Wersland:
That sounds great.

Mike Sarraille:
Never got back into it. And my joints are now starting to feel, well, I mean, my wife can see it. It plays with my head man, getting older and not being able to main some, maintain some semblance of performance. Dude, it just plays with your freaking head.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I am a thousand percent with you. I’ve lost, I, I jacked my sh my shoulder’s still messed up from the accident.

Mike Sarraille:
But you can now bench.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I could for the longest time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it’s caught up to me. Like I, it’s as much recovery and everything as I’ve done. I’ve, like, you pull a Tara labrum like you, thera again is not gonna help that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I’m with you, dude. I’ve lost probably 25 pounds in the last six months, cuz this, it’s so painful. I’m supposed to have surgery next Tuesday, but we’ll see how that goes. Yeah. There’s always some reason why I can’t,

Mike Sarraille:
Again, I was down for, so I had the hip resurfacing, which is, uh, what, what’s correct word? More intrusive or evasive? Um, invasive. Yeah. Because they, they actually cut the glute to go in and do it. Oh. So it’s, it’s the young man’s tape replacement where they take half the femur head and put the metal ball on. Oh, they did that? Yes. So that you maintain as much bone. Which, which side left. Um, interesting. So you maintain as, as much going the way you’re walking around. Oh, the thing’s been great. I was jumping into Mount Everest, uh, not onto to Everest, I was gonna say, uh, is into, uh, to the base camps around Everest. Uh, less than nine months later. Um, no pain at all. No pain. So range emotional, bit different. It’s increased. Oh wow. Increased. Because before, the reason I had to get it done is, uh, is bone spurs and impingement.

Mike Sarraille:
And now you asked to have them. Yes. Wow. And so now this one has less range of motion. The, I guess the, the not good one now, but, uh, the less bionic, the funniest thing was, so I, you know, I did some basic like two mile walks or, or four mile walks to get ready for the trails of Everest. We weren’t climbing cuz we were Scott Adam. But, uh, nothing to replicate. Uh, one of the days from basically Lu’s, the most dangerous airport people fly into to start the trek. And the first part of the track, you sleep lower in the valley along the river. And then the next day is usually the long most, uh, difference in elevation to get to Nachi in the first Which day? Well, the second day is the, the, the march to Nachi. But all of a sudden I’m feeling heat in my left hip and we’re starting to hear a squeak and everyone’s like, what is that?

Mike Sarraille:
And I’m, I’m, I’m looking at people, I’m like, what the hell is that? Really? And there was a, uh, you know what an Air Force PJ is? Yeah. They’re like high speed medics in the field. And he’s like, Hey Mike, just keep walking. He’s like right next to my butt. I’m like, what are you doing dude? And he’s like, just keep walking. He’s like, that’s your hip. So we called the surgeon. We, we were like, Hey man, is this something to be concerned about? And he’s like, no, it’s, it’s just settling in and this is the longest hike you’ve done. And after that it was, it was fun. How far into the hike was it? Uh, probably about three hours into a six hour. Uh Oh wow. Pike. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re not, the funny thing about like, people are like, oh, you climbed Everest and I didn’t climb Everest is, you feel like a little bit of a, like less of a man cuz the Sherpa’s, uh, are carrying and everything, uh, to well on the mule mul, you know, mul plus guys don’t get enough credit, dude.

Mike Sarraille:
And some of the trails we’d make way cuz you’ll see a Sherpa cuz the way they set up their bundles is like, there’s this piece, piece of cloth on their head with the bar and all just carrying like 200 pounds on Those guys need those trails all. Yeah. <laugh>, we, and so my, my question is, we’ve got this triple 77 coming up. You’ve got everyone who’s pretty much over the age of 40, they’re retired. Special operations guys we’re broke. And, and a good buddy of mine, uh, was a Navy Seal and then became the doctor to the Navy Seals. The Navy sent ’em back and he said the average amount of surgeries for a seal is 11, which seems extremely high through a 20 year to 25 year career. Wow. But, um, what would you recommend for our guys sitting in coach seats? The, the jumping is the easy part, but for sitting in those seats, you sent me the leg compressions. Yeah. Which we went and trained in in Arizona. I used those nightly those things are freaking awesome. Yeah. And the, the ones I love, what I love about yours is they’re not attached to anything.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. No hoses.

Mike Sarraille:
I, so the ones we used at, at my old command, they had the hoses. Yeah. So you can walk around. I know. It’s So you’ve got that, you’ve got the, you know, the uh, the power dot Yeah. For muscle stimulation. Yeah. Cause I know lower backs gonna be a problem. Yeah. Uh, we’ll probably pack a a there again.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You have to I think. Yeah. Yeah. Especially now we have a smaller one

Mike Sarraille:
And, and I saw that and that’s when you guys just released that one.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
We just launched a new Yeah. It’s, we call our mini 2.0.

Mike Sarraille:
Mini two. What, how long is the charge on that?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Uh, 190 minutes. Holy crap. And it also is connected Bluetooth too, but that probably doesn’t matter to you guys when you’re out doing what you’re doing. But I think there’s, I think for you guys, if you could think about your flights, my recommendation was think about blood circulation.

Mike Sarraille:
Yes.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Keep things moving. Yeah. Whether that’s getting up and walking around. If you, you’re

Mike Sarraille:
Sitting a po

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. You can put the boots on. It might be a little weird, but the, the reason we created them the way we did with sequential compression mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it starts at the bottom of your foot and slowly works up whether your legs are elevated or not. So I was with an athlete yesterday, it was like, I, I travel with these, I fly with them. She’s a big time athlete. She was like, I tra I’ve put ’em on the airplane. So I think that for a bunch of guys

Mike Sarraille:
That’s, I could see that drawn eyes. Like

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I also think what would be really, really important is for you guys to take some time and zen out. Yeah. You know, get some music or something that you can like really take. Okay. I’m gonna, I’m gonna take the next 30 minutes and I’m gonna really intentionally go in and just sort of think of nothing for as long as I can.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. No, no, no, that’s helpful. Circulation and, and then focus or or flight. Yeah. Sort of shutting down for a little bit.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um, rest and digest.

Mike Sarraille:
I, I don’t think there’s gonna be much rest man. I can’t sleep. I can’t sleep on an airplane to say like, save me.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So the goggles mm-hmm. <affirmative> are goggles. You should take the goggles cuz if you put those on. I didn’t get to explain the other two. Yeah, no, no. Relax is basically a massage compression on a part of your head that’s specific to relaxing versus focusing,

Mike Sarraille:
But not intending to put you

Dr. Jason Wersland:
To sleep. Not intended to put you to sleep. Then we have the sleep mode that is for putting you to sleep. So it has a really low vibration that can kind of lull your brain into this sort of place. So I think you were talking about this earlier and I’ll, I’ll give you an example, but you can draw the comparisons. There’s a soccer player that we work with in the UK mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I was having this conversation with him about, he’s like, when would I use these goggles? And I said, I was with him for a couple days, so I kind of knew what was happening. I’m like, well, yesterday you had a game in the afternoon and you didn’t sleep the night before cuz you had a game. And then the game starts and you take a bunch of caffeine to play the game.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Now it’s 1:00 AM you’re back to the hotel, your house, whatever, you’re not gonna go to sleep. So now you have what, the next three hours where your body’s just cranking, adrenaline’s, flying, throw ’em on there. Like now you can actually bring your parasympathetic down, bring your parasympathetic on, and now you can really rest and get your mind right. It’s the mind that’s the noisy part. It’s not the body. So Yeah. To me I think that’s, those are, those are applications that people that we’re missing, that people aren’t doing. And I think it’s becoming more of a thing now. People are starting to realize that. So the next couple of years are gonna be a lot of fun for us for some of the technology we’re coming out with.

Mike Sarraille:
And I’m, I’m assuming you, you you hooked up all the nodes to, to people on the different forms. Especially sleep and watch the brain activity. Oh yeah. Just, yeah. Oh

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. Still gathering that. You know, I think the, that’s one of the not, I think that’s one of the main reasons we co we partner with Aura. Okay. Is they’re, they’re really heavy on sleep. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the data they capture on that. And for us, we can actually, if you had an aura or whatever you wore and I in implemented some protocols, you can see a difference. There are markers where it’s like, oh my God, I made a difference. We shouldn’t be so surprised. <laugh>. You know what I mean? Cuz it’s duh. But like the, you have to take time to sharpen the saw.

Mike Sarraille:
And is that part of third body, uh, university or you guys also, is it, is there an r and d testing? We

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Have, so we have science and research. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’re tied to innovation. So we have an innovation group. I’m part of that group. Um, and then we also have an education team, which you call, which basically runs their body university and, and then different versions of that. So like, we just, uh, launched a recovery lounge at LinkedIn headquarters in San Francisco, just outside of San Francisco. Um, and the support for that is comes from the Thera Body University. So they have people to go out and educate, teach people how to use it and that kind of thing. And then we have our retail locations. I don’t know if you knew about that. We have No, I didn’t. Yeah, we have, they’re called reset locations and reset obviously. Yeah. That’s obvious. Easy word. But we have five, uh, actual centers where you can go and it’s amazing recovery. All the latest trends.

Mike Sarraille:
So not only, not only buying buy your products, but also there’s buy products. It’s almost like a therapy.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yep. You can go back your cryo red light double gun treatments. I’ve certified so many people to teach how to use Thera gun on people and do a double gun sweep on them and un stretch. Yes. So we provide that in five of our locations. We have 22 just straight retail. We can go in and experience it. The reason we did that, we learned early on you have to feel it. Yeah. Otherwise I’m sitting here blowing like, smoke, this is gonna make, this is gonna change your life. Take headaches away. Whatever your issue is, it’s gonna fix that. What? But if you can go in and try it, that’s basically what’s driven us to these

Mike Sarraille:
Retail in where there’s five locations for those listening.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Uh, Brent Wood in California, there’s one in Brentwood. Yeah. And one in Manhattan Beach. Uh, there’s one in Houston, uh, Chicago and Philadelphia. Fishtown.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. And then we’re

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Opening a new one in New York. Okay. In June of next year. Hopefully.

Mike Sarraille:
<laugh> is the, is the intent to turn these into chiropractic sort of

Dr. Jason Wersland:
No, I think the, the intent was to democratize a lot of these modalities that were behind a doctor’s door.

Mike Sarraille:
I love, I love the words right there. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So like, let’s get this from behind the gatekeeper mm-hmm. <affirmative> and put it out there. Just add some protocols and simple use cases where it’s not that hard. I mean, we have a medical director because we provide IVs and stuff at different locations, but we don’t need one for what we’re providing. And that’s what, that’s the whole goal. Whether we franchise it one day or whatever. But we’ve figured out what we feel like is a pretty good recipe. Um, and it’s geography, like where it’s located and all those types of things. But it, we feel like if we have something strong enough in the next year or so, then there might be an opportunity to franchise, but got people all over the world that have seen them and want them. Yeah. So

Mike Sarraille:
It’s, and and I understand too, you know, if your insurance doesn’t cover it, it could be cost prohibitive Yeah. To go to a chiropractor for some people time. Uh, no, that’s, that is the beauty. You guys really are innovating in the space. That’s what’s I think is separating you from everyone else. That’s Well, with the innovation cell.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. That’s, I mean that’s what’s what drives me and our team is finding new ways to use frequency. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I mean both how often you use it and what it is that you’re using to affect your body in a positive way, whether it’s performance or sleep. So the, that’s what our, that’s our driving sort of motivation behind that. We just, myself and our head of, uh, our lead engineer who’s kind of over innovation and our science guy, his name’s Tammy, came from Gatorade, forze for River. We just took a little road trip and went up and visited the person to discuss where this mental side of things is going. Yeah. And how can, what is psilocybin? What’s that? Where, where’s that space and what’s happening in there? And cuz we, we can’t ignore that. Right. And for me, as a holistic doctor, I’m like, man, there’s so much good behind that.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Let’s get that out there instead of this stigma. So there’s a lot of really cool opportunities for us to, to still continue to grow. And that’s what’s, that’s what we’re focusing on with innovation. And innovation isn’t just the products. It’s like, it’s being prepared for these opportunities that come along. We did cbd, well CBD wasn’t like a thing, but we got in at the right time. We knew what we were doing. We found the right recipes, the right people. We launched a product that everyone was like, why are you doing that? Well, because it’s like, I can’t ignore that. You know? Yeah. So that’s, it’s, it’s really, it’s probably one of the funnest parts of my job right now is I, I get to spend a lot of time on new products and what that looks like in innovation.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. The, the the the psychedelic market will come. Yeah. I mean, so I went and did the psychedelic therapy. Uh, they were sending a lot of seals, uh, in Mexico, uh, through a nonprofit just

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Changing eye

Mike Sarraille:
Life changing, huh? Oh yeah. And then, and then Microdosed afterwards. Yeah. On, uh, you know, uh, psilocin and it, he was talking about a mood enhancer man.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Our, our medical directors name is Dr. Ryan Green. He’s, he’s from the military Special Forces.

Mike Sarraille:
Love those guys.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Super cool guy. Yeah. And he’s, he’s a osteopath, owns a company. Um, and he is heavily into that, into the, the plant medicine world for therapeutic reasons. Um, it’s

Mike Sarraille:
A, and again, it’s a plant. I, I, here’s my personal Yeah. Uneducated, uh, sort of opinion is again, it’s these, these religious preconceived notions. And dude, I’m a Catholic <laugh>. You have a very Catholic family, uh, from the Bay Area, but some people just need, yeah. Some people need to get over those if it unlocks. Especially, you know, so you look at iga and IGA has helped so many people with addiction, whether it be alcohol, you know, more let’s say hard drugs. Um, it is a tool we need in, in the United States. And Dan Cranshaw, uh, the SEAL had just, yeah, well I think interestingly alongside a Y c aoc, they did together, uh, submitted a bill for the VA to start utilizing psychedelics as a form of treatment for post-traumatic stress.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yeah. He’s my Ryan’s in doing that. So he’s actually one of the guys that’s helping the VA in la God bless him. Yeah. So it’s, he, he and I are having some serious conversations about what that looks like over the next 10 years.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. University of Texas just stood up a center for psychedelic therapy as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well I can’t thank you enough for, for coming on. We do end this with a couple questions. We get a little vulnerable. We, uh, we, we wanna leave, let’s, we wanna leave the people with some, uh, nuggets. Cuz again, we always say on this podcast is that success leaves breadcrumbs follow somebody who’s successful. There’s little breadcrumbs. Not that that path will necessarily leave, you know, work for you. But there’s some nuggets you can take away and apply to your past. So first one is, um, biggest failure in your life. What you learned from it and how you recovered. I think you might have said it earlier,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
I actually do a little, I have a presentation that I do on failures. I mean, it’s about failures. So I don’t, I don’t hope, I hope you don’t mind if I like, give you like my little twist on this, but I don’t see them. I used to see them as failures and, and, and with that came lumps that I would give myself, like you piece of this and that. But I’ve started to recognize, and I, you hear it all the time, but what did I learn from this? So the, your follow up question, that’s what’s put me where I am today is failing and learning and failing and learning. And there’s another word for failure. I mean, I mentioned earlier the, the guy that embezzled money and I had to file bankruptcy mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like who, like what? Like I never, that wasn’t part of my roadmap that I wanted in my life.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
So I look at that at the time it was really tough, but I realized I had to get through that and getting through that and learning about credit reports and that credit score world and like all of these things that I would’ve never learned. So I learned, that’s a big thing I learned was the financial side of things. I’ve been through a divorce and that’s tough. I have two kids that are in their early twenties that went through that and watching the consequences of that, but also giving them, having us opportunity to teach and learn. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, my daughter called me on the way here and she had a rock here windshield. And she was like the end of the world, which we just replaced it like, you know, all the, whatever the, whatever the list of things are that made her put her in that state to be able to get on the phone and then coach her through like, Hey, take some time to cry about this, but then you gotta get up and go make shit happen. Yeah. Um, so I think for me that’s, those are, those are some of the things that stand out as, let me think of another one. Like when I created the first thera again, that one I talked about, I bought 250 of those <laugh>. Dude, it sounded like a chainsaw. Sparks flew out the sides.

Mike Sarraille:
No shit. Yeah. One of them cut on fire when you started. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
When you started it and released it. So I’d have to like, cover my patient’s hair, make sure they don’t have a sweater on. But that was a huge failure. But it, man, it taught me so much the next time it was almost like I wanted to fail. So a lot of my life I tried to avoid it and now I walk towards it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Mike Sarraille:
We so opportunity for growth, that’s what it is. Always. You learn more from failure than you do from success. Yeah. And I love how you just said, we have a phrase here in the everyday warrior. We, uh, are releasing a, uh, a book January 10th when I’m on the expedition, which was not planned. So I get to miss all the media hoopla, which I actually see as a positive. Perfect. Yeah. I’ve got three contributors. They, they can have fun with that. Uh, is get shit done, makes it happen. Do it all again. Tomorrow is sort of our mantra for, for Warriors. Oh wow. I like

Dr. Jason Wersland:
That.

Mike Sarraille:
Yeah. Um, so, you know, we also ask, what are those three core tenants, those, those key success for Jason that have had statistically led to good outcomes in your life? Those things that are not negotiable for

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You. Consistency. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, persistence and delusion.

Mike Sarraille:
Okay. Give me the definition on on all those. Consistency and persistence. Consistency. Some people may,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Consistency is having character consistency to me is the ability to follow through with the decision after the emotion of making the decision is gone. So that’s to me what consistency is. Habits, there’s a lot of things going around right now about habits. You wake up in the morning if you have to negotiate with yourself, whether you’re gonna go running or not, you’ve already lost. Like get up, take care of it. So that’s, to me, consistency. I gotta get up tomorrow and do the same thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m gonna have my perfect day and what’s my perfect day and be consistent to that. Persistence is man, sometimes I’ve heard Noah a thousand times, yeah, we can’t do that. We can’t make that. Well then you’re not the right person. So next, you know, people told me all the time, you can’t make your science quiet. I’m like, we can put a man on the moon. Why can’t you make this quiet? Okay. You’re not, you’re not the right guy. So next, that’s persistence. Being able to continually just drive and drive and then a little bit of delusion.

Mike Sarraille:
And, and, and I’ve never heard this one before. So delusion

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Is believing in things that everyone else around you doesn’t believe in.

Mike Sarraille:
I love that

Dr. Jason Wersland:
You, the, and I and I realize when people call me crazy that I’m on the right path, typically, there’s no way you can do that. Perfect. Then that’s what I’m doing. <laugh>. So those three things, and I talk about it a lot cuz it’s the same thing I share with my kids. It’s the same thing that I share with our company. We have a,

Mike Sarraille:
I love

Dr. Jason Wersland:
That hump day with Dr. Jay where I Yeah. Like this little sort of talk with the company and those three things. And it takes a little bit of delusion in the other two as well. You know what I mean?

Mike Sarraille:
Everyone thinks you’re delusional and, and crazy until you’re successful. Right. And they’re like, Hey, we were right behind you. Little time.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Uh,

Mike Sarraille:
Shut up <laugh>. Lastly, uh, given, and Jason, you’ve, you’ve had a ton of success man. And you are evolving the, you know, the chiropractic space and preventive medicine and, and recovery and thank you and all that. And that’s, you know, I love stories like that, especially your story where you were laying floor into, you know, you had a bad incident and it completely put a fork in your life that necessarily you probably wouldn’t have went down unless that happened. Yeah. Um, but when all this said and done, let’s say 40 years down the line, what will you be, your legacy? What you, what do you want your legacy to be? What is most important as you look back in your life?

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Um,

Mike Sarraille:
I know that’s this

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Juicy. No, no, I like this one. I, I kind of know what I wanna say, but I wanna give some context. You know Joe Dispenza? Yeah. Dr. Joe. Yeah. I, I love him. And he said I, that his wish is that we could get the world to meditate altogether for one minute. And in my mind, if that’s my bullseye, if that’s my my North star, what are the things that have to collectively happen for that to take place? That’s what I hope people tie me to. Something like that. That, that our, I was able to make products that affected your nervous system in a positive way, whether it’s performance or sleep or rest that continue to allow you to live life, to do the things that we’re supposed to do here on earth. To be able to take advantage of all of these experiences we have around us. So to me that’s, that’s kind of what I hope. I know it’s not like a word or like a phrase or something, but it’s really being able to positively affect people’s nervous system. And that meditation thing that Joe talked about was like so inspiring.

Mike Sarraille:
Easier said than done. Yeah. But at the same time, not that hard to, to to make happen. There’s

Dr. Jason Wersland:
The delusion over there, right? Yeah. <laugh>,

Mike Sarraille:
It, it, it is possible. Um, you know, I used to love to say in special operations we had a way of making this seemingly impossible possible. Mm. And uh, when we did the trailer video for triple 77, I said that, uh, said, you know what, what did GFK say? We do things that are hard because nobody else will do ’em. Uh, and that’s, that’s the American way and that’s sort of where it comes from. But I can’t thank you enough for coming on. Um, of course people can find you the Instagram handle, which is you guys are, are have a massive following as what it’s,

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yes. It’s at Thera

Mike Sarraille:
Body. At Thera Body or for the, the products to go direct to the site.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Uh, you can direct to the site. Thera body.com mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I’m Dr. Jason Warland on Instagram. Dr. Jay. Um, yeah, I think people that are listening, um, look at why we create the products we’re creating. We’re not creating, we’re not a product company. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we’re an ethos company and I think the people can look into that a little bit and understand where our intentions are as a company. And they’ll recognize this isn’t about sales, although that’s what takes to run a company. Yeah. But it’s more about your experience and how we can have, I can’t tell you how many people right now, we came out with a knee thing and it’s like, you, you know, it’s like you buy a purple car, like sudden you see all these purple cars everywhere. Yes. We have this knee thing and now it’s like, I’m here. It’s everyone. Why are, can I get one of I’m

Mike Sarraille:
And and and the knee thing is basically it rotates between hot and cold therapies.

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. We call it recovery therm knee and it has ice, less ice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is gets down to about eight degrees Celsius on a consistent basis in seconds. Um, and then it flips to heat. So it’ll actually do cryotherapy for you. So Yeah. But that, my point is like the, there’s so many opportunities for people to experience things they haven’t before. Cuz they thought I’ll have to get that from my doctor. No, you don’t go on our website. You buy it and there’s protocols, it’s connected to Bluetooth. It’ll show you the like. So that, that’s, that’s where we’re innovating I think is the abil the, the ability for people to apply them in their lives. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and have it be effective. Some people that are older are like, why? I know I need Ethereum, but like, how do I use that? So that’s, those are, that’s also part of the innovation story for

Mike Sarraille:
Us. And guys, go, go check out this stuff cuz a lot of the, the things that you guys have on the market can be done at your desk, in your office. Literally. Which again, you, you said one hour or one to one ratio, you could actually do it one to three, work out for one hour. You can do therapy. Imagine

Dr. Jason Wersland:
Twitter be you did that. Yeah.

Mike Sarraille:
<laugh>. Well I, same thing with the power dots. I’ll throw those in usually on the shoulders and then just put the sleeve down and nobody knows they’re there. And I just keep rotating on the, uh, but no again, uh, Dr. Jay, thank you for, uh, joining us. Uh, thank you. I want to thank the, uh, the sponsors for hosting this. And hey guys, we are doing this, uh, for the next few months because, uh, it’s dear to my heart. Uh, please go check out legacy expeditions.net prime, primarily the triple 77 expedition. We are trying to fundraise for Folds of honor, which provides educational sponsors or sponsorships to military families and now first responders. It’s dear to our heart. Also, we uphold the legacy of our fallen and also educate their legacy, the ones they left behind. Everyone will thank you for your service until you ask them to make a sacrifice.

Mike Sarraille:
And I’m asking you to make a sacrifice. Now, even if it’s $1, go to givesmart.com. Please help us out. This is a good story of a bunch of guys that are going to set two world records. And right now we need a good story in this country, uh, compared to what we’re, uh, we’re facing the, with all the, uh, divisiveness. Go make a donation. And Jason, thanks again for joining us. We’ll see you again on the Everyday Warrior.

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